View source for Template talk:Infobox lighthouse

{{WikiProject banner shell|
{{WikiProject Infoboxes}}
{{WikiProject Lighthouses}}
}}
{{todo}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}}
|maxarchivesize = 90K
|counter = 1
|minthreadsleft = 10
|minthreadstoarchive = 2
|algo = old(180d)
|archive = Template talk:Infobox lighthouse/Archive %(counter)d
}}
{{Archives |age=180}}

== Use of wikidata ==

I am reviewing the use of Wikidata in this template, and considering whether any other fields can be fetched. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 21:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
{| class="wikitable"
!Field !! Properties !!Status
|-
|Title || label || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Image || {{Q|P18}}, {{Q|P2096}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Location || {{Q|P706}}, {{Q|P276}}, {{Q|P131}}, {{Q|P17}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Coordinates || {{Q|P625}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Automated || {{Q|P793}} - {{Q|Q24410992}} / {{Q|P585}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Deactivated || {{Q|P730}} ||{{tick}} 2017
|-
|Tower shape || {{Q|P1419}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Tower height || {{Q|P2048}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Focal height || {{Q|P2923}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Range || {{Q|P2929}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Characteristic || {{Q|P1030}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Racon || {{Q|P3994}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Managing agent || {{Q|P137}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|Heritage || {{Q|P1435}} || {{tick}} 2017
|-
|OS grid || {{Q|P613}} || {{done}}
|-
|Year first constructed || {{Q|P571}} || {{done}}
|-
|Year first lit || {{Q|P729}} || {{done}}
|-
|Intensity || {{Q|P3041}} || {{done}}
|-
|Light source || {{Q|P618}}  || {{xmark}} not the same
|-
|Admiralty number || {{Q|P3562}} || {{done}}
|-
|NGA number || {{Q|P3563}} || {{done}}
|-
|ARLHS number || {{Q|P2980}} || {{done}}
|-
|USCG number || {{Q|P3723}} || {{done}}
|-
|Construction || {{Q|P186}} || {{done}}
|-
|Markings/pattern || {{Q|P462}}, {{Q|P5422}} || {{done}}
|-
|Built by || {{Q|P287}}, {{Q|P193}} || {{done}}
|-
|CCG number || {{Q|P3920}} || {{done}}
|-
|Lens || {{Q|P9597}} || {{done}}} May 2021
|}

=== Additional identifiers ===

Is there interest in adding any of the following identifiers to the infobox? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 21:59, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
*{{Q|P3601}}
*{{Q|P3223}}
*Country specific:
**{{Q|P4038}}
**{{Q|P4143}}
**{{Q|P4055}}
**{{Q|P3993}}
**{{Q|P3211}}
**{{Q|P3863}}
**{{Q|P4423}}
My personal opinion is that these kinds of identifiers should generally be kept to a minimum in the infobox, because they are not human-readable. However I think country specific identifiers could be useful for lighthouses from those specific countries, and if the identifier links to a reliable source of information for that lighthouse (e.g. NGA) then that is quite useful for verifying details. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:07, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

===Year first constructed===
If a lighthouse takes several years to construct (not unusual) should this field record the start of construction or the end of construction? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:35, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
:I don't know if anyone else is watching and would like to comment? My opinion is that "Constucted" should logically give the date of start of construction. If it was the end of construction, then it would in most cases coincide with the "First lit" field. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:26, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

===Light source===
What kind of values does this field take? I would be interested to see some examples of it in use. I suspect it is not equivalent to {{Q|P618}} (which would be solar power/battery for most lighthouses nowadays) &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:48, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:{{ping|Stuffed cat}} would you be able to explain your reasoning for adding this field to the infobox, and give some examples of its use? And if possible, could the documentation be for this parameter be made clearer? Thanks &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 08:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
::I think the best list of options comes from the series of light sources I put on the [[South Gare Lighthouse]] page: Paraffin wick lamp, Pressurised paraffin burner, Tungsten filament lamp, CDM T lamp, High intensity LED lamp.
::The trouble is that most of these are obsolete and I suspect only a limited range of sources are used today.  As for the reasoning it's a matter of documenting and characterising the lighthouse.  As you suggest the 'Power source' might also be a good one to have and this might take values like: Mains electricity, Hydrogen fuel cell, Photovoltaic cells.  I'm not confused about what |lightsource is but I think the examples should clear up any confusion there may be.  Anyway I've modified the Usage part and I hope all concerned are happy with it.  I note that there's a lot of red warnings on the preview page - I don't think that has anything to do with me. [[User:Stuffed cat|Stuffed Cat]] ([[User talk:Stuffed cat|talk]]) 02:30, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the clarification Stuffed cat. That is a really nice comprehensive article there, and well sourced! I think a list of possible values would be useful. It won't be exhaustive, but should guide editors. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 10:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
In my experience most uses of this field are using it incorrectly. The most common value is "solar power" or occasionally "mains power", which is of course not the "light source" but the "power source". I am proposing to add a new field to the infobox called '''Power source''' and get its data from {{Q|P618}}. I will look into whether the erroneous values in {{para|lightsource}} can be transferred over in due course. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:14, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
:I have created [[:Category:Solar powered lighthouses using wrong field]] to find articles where editors have wrongly used "solar powered" in the "light source" field. I plan to move these over to the "power source" field instead. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:49, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
::This is now {{done}} &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:50, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

===Qualifiers===
The infobox will now recognise some qualifiers from Wikidata. For example:
{{Statement+
|rank=+1
|P={{P-|P186}}
|V={{Q-|Q287}}
|qp={{P-|P518}}
|qv={{Q-|Q12518}}
}}{{Statement+
|rank=+1
|P={{P-|P462}}
|V={{Q-|Q23444}}
|q1.p={{P-|P518}}
|q1.v1={{Q-|Q12518}}
|V2={{Q-|Q23445}}
|V2.q1.p={{P-|P518}}
|V2.q1.v1={{Q-|Q2618398}}
}}
{{Infobox lighthouse|construction=wood (tower)|marking=white (tower), black (lantern)}}
yields the example on the right. I will endeavour to document these features shortly &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 19:02, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

== Lens ==
{|
|-
|{{Infobox|label1=Original lens|data1=1st order 920mm fixed lens|label2=Current lens|data2=Fourth order [[Fresnel lens]]}} || {{Infobox|label1=Lens|data1=1st order 920mm fixed lens (original),<br>Fourth order [[Fresnel lens]] (current)}}
|}
I suggest merging '''Original lens''' and '''Current lens''' into simply '''Lens'''. If both fields are used then qualifiers (original) and (current) could be added automatically. If just one is used, then no qualifier is needed.

The reason is that if the current is the same as the original, then the infobox looks a little silly. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 15:53, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
{|
|-
|{{Infobox|label1=Original lens|data1=Fourth order [[Fresnel lens]]|label2=Current lens|data2=Fourth order Fresnel lens}} || {{Infobox|label1=Lens|data1=Fourth order [[Fresnel lens]]}}
|}
I have created a tracking category [[:Category:Lighthouses using current lens parameter]] and intend to merge the two parameters shortly &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
:I have emptied [[:Category:Lighthouses using current lens parameter only]] by renaming the "currentlens" parameter to "lens". I am planning to start on the remaining articles in [[:Category:Lighthouses using current lens parameter]] by appending (original) and (current) to the values and merging, i.e. for example, from
<pre>
 | lens = Fourth order [[Fresnel lens]]
 | currentlens = 375 mm lens 
</pre>
to
<pre>
 | lens = Fourth order [[Fresnel lens]] (original), 375 mm lens (current)
</pre>
&mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 22:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
:{{done}} All instances have been converted, and the currentlens parameter will be removed shortly &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 20:16, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

== CHS number ==

I don't think CHS number (linked to [[Canadian Hydrographic Service]]) is an accurate name for this. The list of lights appears to be maintained by the [[Canadian Coast Guard]]. Editors have got around the issue by prefixing the number with CCG. I suggest renaming this label to '''[[Canadian Coast Guard|CCG]] number''' and then these prefixes would be redundant. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:03, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
:{{done}} &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:48, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

The prefix CCG on these numbers is now unnecessary. I have created a tracking category [[:Category:Lighthouses with CCG prefix]] to find these for removal. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:48, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
:These have now been cleared &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 22:44, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

== Owner parameter? ==

Hi, is there any interest in adding an "owner" parameter in the infobox? In most cases a lighthouse is owned by the national government of the site but an exception is possible. Regards, ... [[User:PeterEasthope|PeterEasthope]] ([[User talk:PeterEasthope|talk]]) 13:15, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
:There is {{para|managing_agent}}, which displays with the heading '''Operator:'''. Since there are probably very few cases where the owner is different that the operator, exceptions can be handled by saying something like "(owned by national government)" after showing the operator. [[User:MB|<b style="color:#034503">MB</b>]] 14:19, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
:I think adding "owner" would be an excellent idea, but perhaps with advice not to include unless it is different from operator? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 17:56, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

== Importing to Wikidata ==
For those editors interested in using Wikidata to store the data for the infoboxes, I have been working on a tool to help import directly from the infobox template.

Adding {{para|qs|yes}} adds a link to [[wikidata:Help:QuickStatements|QuickStatements]] which can quickly import some of the data from the infobox. For a proof of concept, try clicking the colored arrow [[File:Commons to Wikidata QuickStatements.svg|20px]] on the infobox below.

It is not infallible! It needs to be used with care, and the results should be reviewed afterwards. Some known limitations:
*Units are fixed to metres (height and focal height) and nautical miles (range). If any different units are used in the infobox, errors will be introduced.
*Any preceding characters in front of values will stop it working. For example {{para|yearlit|~1880}} would not work.
*A character inside a number (e.g. {{para|intensity|15,000}}) will be truncated to 15.
*Statements are marked as imported from enwiki, but should be referenced to a reliable source where possible. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 19:59, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

== Admiralty number syncronised with Wikidata ==

I am happy to report that the admiralty number in the template is now fully aligned with {{Q|P3562}} on Wikidata. To keep them synchonised I am proposing to remove the local parameter and just use the value on Wikidata. This will be the first step towards a [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Lighthouses#Proposal:_move_identifiers_out_of_infobox|master plan]] that I proposed earlier in the year. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 17:32, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
:Update: '''NGA number''' and '''CCG number''' are now fully aligned with their Wikidata values, so the local parameters for these have been turned off. Still to do: '''ARLHS number''' and '''USCG number''' &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:51, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
:Update: '''ARLHS number''' is now aligned with Wikidata and the local parameter has been switched off &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

== Sections for tower and light ==

{{Infobox lighthouse/sandbox| qid = Q639663}}
We are grouping properties of the tower at the top of the infobox and properties of the light at the bottom of the infobox. What do people think about adding some headings to make the distinction clearer? An example is shown right. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:42, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
:This now been implemented &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 17:04, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Bug in code ==
{{Infobox lighthouse|qid=Q109370544}}
I have discovered that if two images are held on Wikidata and only the second one has a caption, then the template will give the first image but give it the caption of the second image! I will look into fixing this somehow ... &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 19:16, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

== Image parameter ==

I think ''image'' would be a simpler parameter name than ''image_name''. The latter is unintuitive and always forces me back to the template documentation when I find that ''image'' doesn't work! I suggest the template should accept the ''image'' parameter as an alternative. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:38, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

== Deprecated parameters ==

I have posted a request at [[WP:BOTREQ]] to remove several parmeters which are no longer used by this template. They are listed below.
{{flatlist|
* Admiralty
* ARLHS
* Canada
* coordinates_footnotes
* NGA
* pushpin
* pushpin_label_position
* pushpin_map
* pushpin_map_alt
* pushpin_map_caption
* pushpin_mapsize
* pushpin_outside
* pushpin_relief
* relief
* USCG}} &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:39, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
:This has now been completed &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 08:53, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

== History section ==

I'm thinking it would be good to have a section in the infobox for the history of the lighthouse, including all significant dates. We can bring the "constructed", "first lit", "automated" into this section along with other important dates like "commissioned", "electrified", "destroyed", etc. Of course they would need to be in chronological order to make sense. I will make a mock-up to see what it would look like. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 20:42, 2 April 2022 (UTC)