View source for User talk:Zosima13

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== Potential COI  ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, Zosima13. We [[Help:Getting started|welcome]] your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things [[Special:Contributions/Zosima13|you have written about]] on the page [[:Opus Dei]], you may have a [[conflict of interest]] (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the '''[[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest|conflict of interest guideline]]''' and '''[[Wikipedia:FAQ/Article subjects|FAQ for article subjects]]''' for more information. We ask that you:

*'''avoid editing or creating''' articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
* '''propose changes''' on the [[Help:Talk pages|talk pages]] of affected articles (you can use the {{tl|edit COI}} template)—don't forget to give details of [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] supporting your suggestions;
* '''disclose''' your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see {{Section link|Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI}});
*'''avoid linking''' to your organization's website in other articles (see {{Section link|Wikipedia:Spam#External link spamming}});
*'''do your best''' to comply with Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Core content policies|content policies]].

In addition, you are '''required''' by the [[Wikimedia Foundation]]'s terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See [[Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure]].

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicizing, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted.  Thank you.<!-- THE FOLLOWING CATEGORY SHOULD BE REMOVED IF THE USER IS BLOCKED, OR IT IS DECIDED THAT THIS USER DOES NOT HAVE A COI, OR THIS TEMPLATE HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR A WHILE WITH NO ACTION. -->{{#ifexpr: ({{#time: U | now}} - 1731953537) < 13150000 | [[Category:User talk pages with conflict of interest notices|{{PAGENAME}}]] |  }}<!-- Template:uw-coi --> [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 18:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

:Thank you for your message. May I ask why you consider that I may have a Potential COI? The edits I have made have been explained in the edit summaries. We may not agree on why these were made, but I don't see why this merits being flagged as a Potential COI. If we disagree, I think it would be better that we talk about on the Talk page so that others may join and so that we can come to a consensus. Also, as I have mentioned in the Talk page of the article, I think the page needs a major rewrite (for the reasons I mentioned there). There was previous discussion on this in earlier Talk entries. If you have time, I would be grateful for any suggestions you have. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 20:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
::The pattern of your edits is generally what we see with connected editors. Not all connections are a COI though, can you explain what youe connection to the topic is? [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 01:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:::I think I see what you mean. So far, my edits to the Opus Dei article have mostly been limited to some instances that, to my judgment, are sensationalistic and unsupported by the references given. So, I can see how a pattern may arise that makes it seem that I am pushing a certain POV. I have been considering other edits concerning the numerous entries that seem to my mind to be more like endorsements and do not add anything substantive to the description and explanation of this organization. But, since I am a rather inexperienced editor, I have been carefully considering how best to approach this. I raised some of this up on the Talk page to see if others might have some suggestions, but so far, there has been no response. Perhaps that is because there doesn’t seem to be any stable editors for this article at this time. My interest in all this is that, given the current form of the article, it is difficult to get a clear sense of what Opus Dei really is. Instead, there seems to be quite a deal of back and forth between supporters and critics done in a scattered way throughout the article. I was (or maybe still am) considering reorganizing and rewriting the article, but I need time to do research and find more scholarly and reliable references. And then there is the question of how best to keep a NPOV (while making sure not to give undue weight to relevant, yet minority views), which seems a bit tricky given the controversy that this institution seems to generate. If you have any tips or advice, they would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 03:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
::::You have been editing wikipedia for more than ten years an in that time don't appear to have ever made an edit to another topic and your edits don't appear NPOV they appear promotional. What is your connection. [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 17:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::Hello again. Thank you for your thoughts and concerns you have expressed. 
:::::With regard to the content of my edits, I can understand that you do not consider them NPOV and that you think they are promotional. It would be helpful, though, to know what exactly you perceived as promotional and why. That might help how I make my edits. As I explained above, I am still working out how best to clean up this article. I’ve started with the first paragraph of the lede, and am working my way down through the rest of the lede and the body of the article. I’m just trying to make this article worthy of being on Wikipedia. In its present state, I find it quite unreadable. But that is my opinion. At some point, I will try to rework the more controversial aspects of Opus Dei, and I hope that the result will make these issues more comprehensible to the average reader instead of the tangle of accusations and counter-accusations that we find in the present text. It is my opinion that it is possible to present controversial topics in a considered and orderly way that respects a NPOV. My intention is to attempt this, though, given the complexity of some of these issues (to give one example, the relationship of Opus Dei and the Franco government), this will, of course, take a bit of time. So, if you could give me some time and the benefit of the doubt, I hope to allay your concerns about “Potential COI” and my capability of being able to maintain a NPOV.
:::::Meanwhile, as I make edits, I would appreciate any feedback or objections you (and others) may have. I will also be most interested to hear from you when the more contentious topics regarding Opus Dei come up, since these are the ones that are most difficult to get right. But, if I may ask, please make them in the Talk section of the article.
:::::At some point, though, I hope other editors become more, because this a very daunting task. I myself am just trying it out.
:::::As for your observation that I have been editing for ten years, that is correct. But, as can be noticed, I’ve only made about 100 so far (which was probably closer to 70 when I wrote the previous message), and I still find myself spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to start a page, and how to use the formatting. Maybe I’m a slow learner, but I find that even after 100 edits, there is just so much to figure out. I just, for example, learned how to make lists. And, at this moment, I know how to edit an infobox, but I don’t know how to insert one into an article. As for all my edits being on just this topic, all I can say is that the log of my (few) edits shows otherwise.
:::::If you get all the way to the end of this, thank you for your time. Sorry for being overly verbose. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 21:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::Given your connection I would advise against editing any articles about Opus Dei or related topics going forward. There is a lot of wikipedia and I'm sure you can find a few topics you like editing whih you don't have a COI with. As for adding templates [[Category:Infobox templates]] has a complete collection but I personally navigate to them by googling "Wikipedia infobox person" or "Wikipedia infobox company" etc and normally the closest one pops up. [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 21:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::If you have some concern with COI, bring it up with the appropriate authorities. Otherwise don't use it as a way of excluding contributions. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 22:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I have brought my concerns about COI to you, thats where you're supposed to bring them... You appear to be acknowledging that you have a COI. Your contributions are not excluded, please refer back to the first post which explains how you can continue to contribute to topic areas in which you have a COI even though doing so is discouraged (but not excluded). [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 22:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::Good. We'll deal with it there. Meanwhile, since I do not think that first post applies to me, I'll continue to make contributions as I like.
:::::::::Thank you, by the way, for the advice about adding templates. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 22:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::Why would it not apply to you? You've made it clear that you have a COI. [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::I never have. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 22:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::So you do not have a connection to Opus Dei? [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 22:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::You already seem convinced that I do. So, I suspect that even if I said the truth (and said no), it wouldn't end the discussion. I don't mean to sound rude here, but there are limits to how I can phrase things. Besides, this has already been brought to the proper authorities, I think. 
:::::::::::::I did google wikipedia templates, and I found a nice template for a possible article I want to propose. Now I have to figure out how to use the template. So, thank you for helping out on that. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 23:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Normally when someone has no connection they just say "No" to begin with, they don't spend a half dozen edits dancing around the question... In my experience that happens when someone does have a connection which they are trying to get around disclosing, but then again there is a first time for everything. You're not trying to be subtle, that draft ([[Draft:Jesus Arellano]]) is also about an Opus Dei figure. [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 00:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Well, I think we should move on to some authority to resolve this. Just because I have an interest in Jesus Arellano doesn't mean I have a "connection" to Opus Dei. It might, perhaps, indicate an interest in 20th century Spanish philosophy, especially existentialism and personalism. And Opus Dei happens to have (in my opinion) a major importance in 20th century Spain. I've also made edits to Zubiri and Pareyson, who, to my knowledge are not in Opus Dei. There's some Chinese bishop in there too, but I forgot his name. But we can go on and on about this. At some point, though, I would like to get back to work on articles. 
:::::::::::::::Would you be ok if we brought this to the some next level to get this disputer resolved? Isn't there some place to officially accuse people of COI? [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 00:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: Yes I apologize, that would be [[Anthony Tu Shihua]]. Your edit history can be found her[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Zosima13&target=Zosima13&offset=&limit=500]. Am I missing something or had you not edited either Zubiri or Pareyson until after I opened this discussion? [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 01:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::Yea, that’s the Chinese bishop! No, you’re correct, I just checked my history, and yes, I started editing Zubiri and Pareyson (and maybe drafting Arellano?) after you started this discussion. But, I didn’t start editing them BECAUSE of this discussion. I was already getting back into Leonardo Polo and hence my renewed Wikipedia activity. My main interest here in Wikipedia is him. My actual biggest interest is Heidegger, but there’s already so much written about him that I don’t think I can make any meaningful contribution. So, my focus right now is more on 20th century Spanish philosophy in general (and Heidegger’s influence on it), and Leonardo Polo in particular.
:::::::::::::::::I apologize for such a long thread, and for sounding testy at times. I think I might have read too much into you’re reverting the change and to the discussion that ensued. It was the first time someone reverted one of my edits, and so I might have felt a bit defensive. I generally don’t like having to explain myself. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 01:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::For context we've had issues with people related to Opus Dei trying to edit the page for years and we get the same on a lot of religious pages, for example at the same time we were talking I was also dealing with edits like this[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shen_Yun&diff=prev&oldid=1258839622] over at Falun Gong. Thank you for your patience. [[User:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|Horse Eye&#39;s Back]] ([[User talk:Horse Eye&#39;s Back|talk]]) 16:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC) 
:::::::::::::::::::Wow, Falun Gong--I hadn't heard much about them since the late 1990s. I didn't know they were involved with Shen Yun (I see their bill boards all over the place). But thanks to Wikipedia, now I do!
:::::::::::::::::::Thank you for your patience as well. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 02:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Sorry, didn't want to put you on the spot. We don't necessarily have to bring it up to the next level. Just looking for a way to resolve this.
:::::::::::::::Also, hope you were impressed by how I used the template. Couldn't figure out how to get birth date or death date though. But I'll work on that later. [[User:Zosima13|Zosima13]] ([[User talk:Zosima13#top|talk]]) 01:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

== Your submission at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for creation]]: [[Draft:Jesus Arellano|Jesus Arellano]] (January 14) ==
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> [[File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg|50px|left]]Your recent article submission to [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for Creation]] has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reason left by SafariScribe was:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission's references do not show that the subject [[Wikipedia:Notability|qualifies for a Wikipedia article]]—that is, they do not show ''significant'' coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in ''published'', [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|''reliable'']], [[Wikipedia:No_original_research#Secondary|''secondary'']] sources that are ''[[Wikipedia:Independent sources|independent]]'' of the subject (see the [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)|guidelines on the notability of people]]). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see [[Help:Referencing_for_beginners#Inserting_a_reference|technical help]] and learn about [[Wikipedia:Common sourcing mistakes (notability)|mistakes to avoid]] when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.|}}<!--
--
--> Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer.  You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit ''after they have been resolved''.
{{clear}}
* If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to [[Draft:Jesus Arellano]] and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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<span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:SafariScribe|Safari Scribe]]</span><sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/SafariScribe|'''''Edits!''''']] [[User talk:SafariScribe|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 23:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)</div><!--Template:AfC decline-->

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| <div style="background-color:#e1e6db; color: #393D38; padding: 1em; font-size: 1.1em; border-radius:10px;box-shadow:-2px -2px 1px #8e8a78;">Hello, '''Zosima13'''!
Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk|Articles for creation help desk]]'''. If you have any ''other'' questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the '''[[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]''', a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:SafariScribe|Safari Scribe]]</span><sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/SafariScribe|'''''Edits!''''']] [[User talk:SafariScribe|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 23:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)</div>
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